Comparing The Beasts Of Rev. 13 And 17

by Jack Kelley

The Beast Of Rev. 13

Then another sign appeared in heaven, an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. (Rev. 12:3)

And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. (Rev. 12:7-9)

And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name … The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. (Rev. 13:1-3)

At first glance all this looks pretty confusing, but the heads, horns, numbers, and crowns are all symbolic.  When used this way head means knowledge/wisdom, while horn means authority.  Seven is the number of perfection, and 10 denotes completion, meaning nothing is lacking. Seven is also more often used in the spiritual sense, and ten usually refers to earthly things. The seven heads and ten horns symbolize perfect wisdom and complete authority.

The facts that both Satan and the beast have seven heads and ten horns show us that when Satan is cast to Earth, he will immediately in-dwell the beast, who we call the anti-Christ.  This is the point at which the Great Tribulation begins on Earth.  Some people see the beast as a system or government, but the use of so many personal pronouns in Rev. 13 indicates the beast is a person, with all of Satan’s power at his command.  Then there’s the fact that a second beast, known as the false prophet, will build a statue of the anti-Christ, and cause it to breathe so it can speak. (Rev. 13:15)   How do you build a talking statue of a system, or a government?

The crowns denote rulership. Notice that Satan has seven crowns and they’re on his heads, while the anti-Christ will have ten crowns on his horns. Also, in the description of Satan the heads come first, but with the anti-Christ the horns are first.  The Lord tends to list things in descending order of importance. This means that Satan will rule out of his super natural wisdom, his predominant power (Ezek 28:12,17), and the anti-Christ will rule because Satan will give him the authority to do so. 

The Beast Of Rev. 17

Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.(Rev. 17:3)
Here we see a beast ridden by a woman.  This beast also has seven heads and ten horns, but no crowns, and is covered with blasphemous names.  This beast can not be the anti-Christ but has to be another view of Satan.  We can see this because the seven heads are listed first, as they were with the dragon in Rev. 12:3

Furthermore Rev. 17:8 tells us this beast once was (before John’s time), now is not (in John’s time), will come up out of the abyss (after John’s time).  The anti-Christ was not around before John’s time, but Satan was, and from Rev. 13 we know he’ll come back. But what caused him to go into hiding?

Condemned And Defeated

On the night before His death Jesus promised the Holy Spirit and said that the prince of this world (Satan) would now stand condemned. (John 16:11) Paul said that at the cross, Jesus made a public spectacle of the (spiritual) powers and authorities, triumphing over them by the cross. (Col. 2:15)

In his first letter to the Church John wrote about the spirit of the anti-Christ and said it was already in the world (1 John 2:18).  Paul agreed, calling it the secret power of lawlessness that was already at work in the world (2 Thes. 2:7).  In the past, Satan had enjoyed an unrestricted presence in the world.  But from John’s time on that would not be the case.  He would be limited to working in secret through disobedient men until sometime in the future when he’ll appear again to the great astonishment of the unbelieving world.  What force has  restrained him from John’s day until ours to the point where the vast majority of people in the world today, believer or not, deny his very existence?  Will the world be astonished when he appears again because they didn’t think he was real?   

According to Paul, this restraining power is the promised Holy Spirit, resident in the Church.  He’ll continue to restrain the secret power of lawlessness until He’s taken out of the way (literally out of the midst) of the world.  And then at the proper time, the beast will once again be revealed to do his worst before finally being destroyed (2 Thes. 2:7-8).  Rev. 13:4 says the unbelieving world’s  reaction to Satan’s reappearance will be to bow down and worship him.

The subject of Rev. 17 is mystery Babylon, the false religion.  I believe this second vision of the beast was given to John at such a late point in the Book of Revelation to provide some background on the Satanic nature of religious Babylon and show why it has to be completely destroyed. 

The seven heads represent seven hills on which the woman sits. The woman signifies the pagan religion that originated in Babylon.  Later it was moved to Rome where in the 4th century it was merged with the church and hidden behind the veil of Christianity.  The fact that no crowns are mentioned and the woman is the rider (and therefore in control) indicate that one of Satan’s strategies is to work through this false religion to deceive the world.

This is confirmed by the fact that the seven heads also represent seven Kingdoms. (Rev. 17:9)  Five of them had fallen by John’s time, one was currently in power, and the remaining one would come later. The five previous kingdoms were Egypt, Assyria, neo-Babylon, Persia and Greece. The current one was Rome, and the one to come is the one we call the revived Roman Empire.  Each one had a version of the pagan Babylonian religion that influenced the decisions of the kingdom. 

The ten horns are ten Kings who in John’s time had not yet received a kingdom but for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. (Rev. 17:12)  This hour is the hour of trial that’s going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the Earth, out of which the Lord has sworn to keep us (Rev. 3:10).  The Greek word translated “from” in Rev. 3:10 means out of the place, time, or cause of the event referred to, in this case the hour of trial. The Greek word for hour also has a figurative meaning and that’s the way it’s being used here.  Figuratively it means a certain definite time or season.  The time or season being referenced is the Great Tribulation.

After the Church is gone and the restraint against Satan is lifted he’ll come out from hiding and inhabit an earthly king to rule openly again.  We first saw this in Rev. 13 and in Rev. 17 we can see it confirmed.

The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.(Rev. 17:11)

Together Satan and these kings will take up arms against the Lord, but he’ll overcome them because He’s Lord of lords and King of kings. And when He does, we’ll be with Him.

“They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.” (Rev. 17:14)

In this comparison of Rev. 13 and Rev. 17 we’ve seen that Satan has been working on several levels to thwart the plan of God.  One of his most successful strategies has been to use religion as a tool. And we’ve also seen more evidence that the Church has to be gone before his end game can begin.   You can almost hear the footsteps of the Messiah.  10-24-09 

The Beast Of Rev. 13

Then another sign appeared in heaven, an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. (Rev. 12:3)

And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. (Rev. 12:7-9)

And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name … The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. (Rev. 13:1-3)

At first glance all this looks pretty confusing, but the heads, horns, numbers, and crowns are all symbolic.  When used this way head means knowledge/wisdom, while horn means authority.  Seven is the number of perfection, and 10 denotes completion, meaning nothing is lacking. Seven is also more often used in the spiritual sense, and ten usually refers to earthly things. The seven heads and ten horns symbolize perfect wisdom and complete authority.

The facts that both Satan and the beast have seven heads and ten horns show us that when Satan is cast to Earth, he will immediately in-dwell the beast, who we call the anti-Christ.  This is the point at which the Great Tribulation begins on Earth.  Some people see the beast as a system or government, but the use of so many personal pronouns in Rev. 13 indicates the beast is a person, with all of Satan’s power at his command.  Then there’s the fact that a second beast, known as the false prophet, will build a statue of the anti-Christ, and cause it to breathe so it can speak. (Rev. 13:15)   How do you build a talking statue of a system, or a government?

The crowns denote rulership. Notice that Satan has seven crowns and they’re on his heads, while the anti-Christ will have ten crowns on his horns. Also, in the description of Satan the heads come first, but with the anti-Christ the horns are first.  The Lord tends to list things in descending order of importance. This means that Satan will rule out of his super natural wisdom, his predominant power (Ezek 28:12,17), and the anti-Christ will rule because Satan will give him the authority to do so. 

The Beast Of Rev. 17

Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns.(Rev. 17:3)
Here we see a beast ridden by a woman.  This beast also has seven heads and ten horns, but no crowns, and is covered with blasphemous names.  This beast can not be the anti-Christ but has to be another view of Satan.  We can see this because the seven heads are listed first, as they were with the dragon in Rev. 12:3

Furthermore Rev. 17:8 tells us this beast once was (before John’s time), now is not (in John’s time), will come up out of the abyss (after John’s time).  The anti-Christ was not around before John’s time, but Satan was, and from Rev. 13 we know he’ll come back. But what caused him to go into hiding?

Condemned And Defeated

On the night before His death Jesus promised the Holy Spirit and said that the prince of this world (Satan) would now stand condemned. (John 16:11) Paul said that at the cross, Jesus made a public spectacle of the (spiritual) powers and authorities, triumphing over them by the cross. (Col. 2:15)

In his first letter to the Church John wrote about the spirit of the anti-Christ and said it was already in the world (1 John 2:18).  Paul agreed, calling it the secret power of lawlessness that was already at work in the world (2 Thes. 2:7).  In the past, Satan had enjoyed an unrestricted presence in the world.  But from John’s time on that would not be the case.  He would be limited to working in secret through disobedient men until sometime in the future when he’ll appear again to the great astonishment of the unbelieving world.  What force has  restrained him from John’s day until ours to the point where the vast majority of people in the world today, believer or not, deny his very existence?  Will the world be astonished when he appears again because they didn’t think he was real?   

According to Paul, this restraining power is the promised Holy Spirit, resident in the Church.  He’ll continue to restrain the secret power of lawlessness until He’s taken out of the way (literally out of the midst) of the world.  And then at the proper time, the beast will once again be revealed to do his worst before finally being destroyed (2 Thes. 2:7-8).  Rev. 13:4 says the unbelieving world’s  reaction to Satan’s reappearance will be to bow down and worship him.

The subject of Rev. 17 is mystery Babylon, the false religion.  I believe this second vision of the beast was given to John at such a late point in the Book of Revelation to provide some background on the Satanic nature of religious Babylon and show why it has to be completely destroyed. 

The seven heads represent seven hills on which the woman sits. The woman signifies the pagan religion that originated in Babylon.  Later it was moved to Rome where in the 4rd century it was merged with the church and hidden behind the veil of Christianity.  The fact that no crowns are mentioned and the woman is the rider (and therefore in control) indicate that one of Satan’s strategies is to work through this false religion to deceive the world.

This is confirmed by the fact that the seven heads also represent seven Kingdoms. (Rev. 17:9)  Five of them had fallen by John’s time, one was currently in power, and the remaining one would come later. The five previous kingdoms were Egypt, Assyria, neo-Babylon, Persia and Greece. The current one was Rome, and the one to come is the one we call the revived Roman Empire.  Each one had a version of the pagan Babylonian religion that influenced the decisions of the kingdom. 

The ten horns are ten Kings who in John’s time had not yet received a kingdom but for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. (Rev. 17:12)  This hour is the hour of trial that’s going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the Earth, out of which the Lord has sworn to keep us (Rev. 3:10).  The Greek word translated “from” in Rev. 3:10 means out of the place, time, or cause of the event referred to, in this case the hour of trial. The Greek word for hour also has a figurative meaning and that’s the way it’s being used here.  Figuratively it means a certain definite time or season.  The time or season being referenced is the Great Tribulation.

After the Church is gone and the restraint against Satan is lifted he’ll come out from hiding and inhabit an earthly king to rule openly again.  We first saw this in Rev. 13 and in Rev. 17 we can see it confirmed.

The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.(Rev. 17:11)

Together Satan and these kings will take up arms against the Lord, but he’ll overcome them because He’s Lord of lords and King of kings. And when He does, we’ll be with Him.

“They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.” (Rev. 17:14)

In this comparison of Rev. 13 and Rev. 17 we’ve seen that Satan has been working on several levels to thwart the plan of God.  One of his most successful strategies has been to use religion as a tool. And we’ve also seen more evidence that the Church has to be gone before his end game can begin.   You can almost hear the footsteps of the Messiah.  10-24-09

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15 CommentsLeave a comment

  1. you have great imagination

  2. Jack,
    Why is it that you hid the name of this beast? Is it because you have not really understood it? You have not explained it completely. You still keep us in the dark.
    So, what I’ll do is to give small contribution to that mysteries, so some of your readers may have an idea of who is this church and who are her children.
    1. The ten king that has no kingdom yet are THE TEN COMMANDMENT of Moses. The Roman Catholic church uses these commandments of Moses as their basic or frontal doctrine.
    2. The SEVEN HEADS are group of religious sect that ran this church, The Roman Catholic Church.(The So-called Board of Directors) Example: a)Sect St Francis of Assissi b)The Agustinian sect,
    etc.
    3. Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother of Harlots and Abominations of the Earth is none other than The Roman Catholic Church.
    Now who are her children, the so called Harlots and Abomination ? They are the ff: a)The Anglican, b)Baptist c)Congregationalist d)Evangelical e)Lutheran f)Methodist g)Reformed and h)Presbyterian.
    Question : Why are they called Harlots and Abomination?
    Answer : Because of their Doctrines. Their doctrines are contrary to the teaching of the bible.
    4)The Two Horns : 1) Roman Catholic Church (west) 2)Orthodox Eastern Church (east)
    5)The Language of the Dragon : ” I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God. I will sit also upon the mount of congregation, in the side of the north, I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be LIKE the Most High.(Isaiah 14:14-15)
    Note** The highest official of the Vatican is called MOST HOLY FATHER.
    6)BABYLON THE GREAT IS FALLEN, AND IS BECOME THE HABITATION OF DEVILS AND THE HOLD OF EVERY FOUL SPIRIT, AND A CAGE OF EVERY UNCLEAN AND HATEFUL BIRDS
    (Rev.18:02)
    FACTS: During the Dark Ages, Rome was called the City of Demons.
    I hope with these eye opener, you’ll be able to understand The Book of Revelation.
    And by the way, The Great battle is the battle of Doctrine and teachings, between The Church of God and The Roman Catholic church and of her children. And actually, it has already started in 1983 up to these present time.

  3. Dove124…I must say I have seen some flawed theology in my time, but your comments are so far fetched (not to mention…not backed up with scipture)that I am not even going to address them, but simply warn my readers to disregard them and to seek the truth in scipture and prayer!

  4. dove127,
    wow. I think you are on the right track. 🙂

  5. Sorry, is dove124
    in fact, there are plenty scriptural references to back up what dove124 had said but most of all, history and the current world situation concur with dove
    maybe dove will provide more insight

  6. Jack,
    I will elaborate it more so that you will understand.But first let me remind you, that the Words of God are Spirit. The bible speaks of spiritual things, and not physical things.What John had wrote are spiritual things. During the time of John, you will never understand this writing. But since it is already 2,000 years since the day it was written, the reader in our time will surely come to notice it . If you only open your eyes to facts and figures.
    1) Now, The Ten Commandments are considered Kings. If you will observe it carefully, these kings have not reign in the heart of this people, members of the Roman Catholic church.The Popes ordered a lot of killings in their times.(And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the martyrs of Jesus : Rev. 17:6)That is why, Pope John Paul, lamented about this , and had ask forgiveness to a wooden cross.(Also, examine their edifice, in there entrances, you can read the Ten Commandments, and mind you, some of them had been change.)
    2)About her children, you must understand that these group of so called sect, came out from her. That is why they are called Protestants. (Examine their doctrines, and compare it to the doctrines of the bible, and you will notice a big difference.)If you yourself understand the doctrines in the bible. But if you are an ignoramus, you’ll never understand it.

    3)In Revelation 13:16 is one of my favorites. It says: “And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, TO RECEIVED A MARK in their right hand, or in their foreheads”.
    Observe how every member of the Roman Catholic do this thing. This is a FACT:The sign of the cross by members of the Roman Catholic church is done with their RIGHT HAND (even though you’re left handed fellow, they are compelled to use the right hand. (This is their mark of being a member of this church, and you cannot deny that)And it start in their forehead. And you will also notice , that every ASH WEDNESDAY, the priest mark in their foreheads a cross .

    4) I will add wisdom, so that you’ll fully understand this Church. The Roman Catholic Church.
    In 2 Corinthians 11:13 It says: “For such are false apostles, deceitful workers,TRANSFORMING THEMSELVES into the Apostles of Christ”.
    EXAMPLE OF TRANSFORMATION:
    pope PAUL I-VI (In the bible, Paul is an Apostle of Christ, so is John)
    pope JOHN I-XXII
    pope JOHN PAUL I- II
    And no marvel; For Satan himself is transformed into an Angel of Light.
    Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness ; whose end shall be according to their works.(II Cor. 11:14-15)
    This is how they do it. Transforming themselves, so that an ignoramus will never understand it.

    5)Here is another one: The number of the beast.
    John the revelator use the number to identify the beast, because the number cannot be altered, nor can be manipulated by anybody and can be hidden, until such a time that it will be revealed to HIM THAT HATH UNDERSTANDING. We already knew that the beast reside in Rome, to be more specific, in Vatican city. So, the numeral that we are going to use is the Roman Numerals, and not Arabic Numerals.
    The Beast wear a crown, and in his crown had this inscription “VICARIUS FILII DEI”, meaning subtitute of God or Son of God. When you count this numerals, it will come up a total of 666.
    V = 5 F = 0 D = 500
    I = 1 I = 1 E = 0
    C = 100 L = 50 I = 1
    A = 0 I = 1
    R = 0 I = 1
    I = 1
    V = 5
    S = 0
    ——————————-
    112 + 53 + 501 = 666
    Now I think you already know who is the Beast. He is none other than the POPE himself.

    HERE IS WISDOM. Let him THAT HATH UNDERSTANDING count the number of the BEAST: for it is THE NUMBER OF A MAN; and his number is Six Hundred threescore and six. (Revelation 13:18)

  7. Jack,
    Here is the the number again.
    ..V=….5,…..F=…0,…..D=..500
    ..I=….1,;….I=…1,;….E=….0
    ..C=..100,;….L=..50,;….I=….1
    ..A=….0,;….I=…1
    ..R=….0,;….I=…1
    ..I=….1
    ..V=….5
    ..S=….0
    ————————————
    TOTAL=112,..+……53,….+….501=666

  8. dove124,
    how will the beast(and her daughters)) be dealt with and how will god’s kingdom be established and is the kingdom of god a political kingdom or spiritual in nature?

    lastly, will jesus return and rule among us – physically?

  9. passerby,
    First of all, as of today, there is a battle going on, not of flesh and blood, but of doctrines and teaching. A chosen by God, or a person SENT by God on HIS behalf, against all the her children .You will know this person by understanding these verses :
    1) And how shall they preach, except they be sent ?(Romans 10:15)
    2). For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God.(John 3:34)
    3). If any man will do his will,he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I (or he)speak of myself (or himself)(John 7:17)
    4)And NO unrighteousness is in him (in his teaching, not even one, will you find unrighteousness in it)(John 7:18)
    5)And the most important of all as way of knowing if he really is sent by God is in this verse.It says:
    And it shall turn to you for a testimony. Settle it therefore in your hearts, NOT TO MEDITATE before what ye shall answer: For I will GIVE YOU a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.(Luke 21:13-15)
    And this person already exist, just the other day, he was debating with three Jewish. And a week ago, he was debating with so many Pastors in Latin America, and he was able to convert them(with the help of God) and open their eyes to the truth. Now to your question:
    1)how will the beast ( and her daughters) be dealt with?
    answer:In Rev.19:17-20 you find the answer . In Rev. 19:20 they were cast alive into a LAKE OF FIRE burning with brimstone.
    2) How will God’s kingdom be established ?
    Answer: First of all, when Jesus start preaching, The Kingdom of God was already here. That is why HE said; S E E K ye first the Kingdom of God, and HIS righteousness(Matthew 6:33). So the kingdom was already here. All you have to do is to seek it. But the question is “How can I find it ?”. The answer is easy. In Jeremiah29:13 it says : “And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart”. If God saw that you really seek HIM, HE will draw you to Jesus Christ(John 6:44)and if you really believe, you will be translated to His Kingdom.(That is not of work, that you will boast for)That Kingdom is the Church of God. And Christ is the HEAD of the Church: and HE is the savior of the body.(Ephesian 5:23)Take note** Christ will not save individual person or group of persons who are outside of that body, but what he will save is the body or the Church. So, to be save by Christ, you must be IN the body.As it is written “Abhor that which is evil ; C L E A V E to that which is good”(Romans 12:9)
    3). Is the kingdom of God a political kingdom or spiritual in nature?
    answer: Spiritual
    4). Will Jesus return and rule among us – physically?
    answer : Jesus Christ is the Head of the Church. If you are willing to join that Church,THE CHURCH OF GOD in the bible, Jesus Christ will be your Ruler. He will reign in your heart. He is the one who will “Give You Rest”(Matthew 11:28).Rest from what? from care of this world, from smoking, drinking, gambling,lust of the flesh,revelings,idolatry,adultery, fornication, witchcraft,hatred, wrath, stripe, seditions, and such like.
    For your information, When Judgment Day come,There is no more heaven and earth. He will destroy these. Read 2 Peter 3:7 , 10 , 12 : and Rev.20:11

    I hope it answer you questions. If there is anything else, feel free to ask.

  10. P.S.,
    I would like to thank Jack Kelly for giving us a spot, and space in his blog. Without this blog of his, we may never had shared some thoughts of ours, even though he may disagree with me or us. And I pray that he will never delete our comments.

    MORE POWER to you Jack.

    Thanks to the Lord. And to God be the Glory Always.

  11. Dove124…..first I want to point out that I am not Jack. He is the one who wrote the article that I posted on my forum. I can appreciate your enthusiasm and I even agree with some aspects of what you say such as Rome and the Vatican possibly being Mystery Babylon. However, in my opinion you have taken God’s word in scripture and spiritualized it to meet your idea of how you believe things are. There is so much to say about all you have posted that I doubt I can address all of it and do an adequate job of it, because time and space won’t allow for it on this forum. I will address as much of the falseness in what you say as best I can.

    Your first misconception is where you believe “the Words of God are Spirit”. The words of God given to us in the Bible were given by his Holy Spirit but are his literal message to us and are meant to be taken literally. The prophets told that Jesus would be born in Bethlehem, and Jesus was literally born in Bethlehem! They told us he would literally be beaten and bruised for our transgressions and he was! These are just two examples out of all the many in the Bible that show his word is his literal message to us. If a prophecy which is written in plain language is not interpreted literally, it opens the door to dozens of views as people guess as to what it might possibly mean. The history of prophetic fulfillment, however, is that God fulfills prophecy literally and about half of the 1000 prophecies of the Bible have already been literally fulfilled. This gives us reason to believe that the predictions which have not yet been fulfilled will have a literal fulfillment rather than some other interpretation.

    That has not changed for God told us:

    Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

    Next you say the Ten Commandments are considered Kings! I challenge you to show me a scripture that says that is so. That is nothing more than an opinion formed by a misunderstanding of a literal word of God. In fact the prophecies in Revelation are backed up in Daniel that there are ten literal kingdoms! For further information on this you can click here: Ten Kindoms of the anti christ

    The seven heads are not seven religious sects. Once again I ask you to back that comment up with scripture. In fact the seven heads represent seven Gentile empires — namely, Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and the final empire of the Antichrist and this is backed up by scripture in the book of Daniel. For more information on this, click here: The Rise and Fall of the Antichrist

    You said “The Language of the Dragon : ” I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God. I will sit also upon the mount of congregation, in the side of the north, I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be LIKE the Most High quoting Isaiah 14:14-15. Then you state “The highest official of the Vatican is called MOST HOLY FATHER” in an attempt to connect him to the scripture in Isaiah. Isaiah 14:14-15 is a clear reference to satan. He is the only one who has ever tried to exalt himself above God. That is very clear in scripture!

    The anti christ is a real man and not a system or religion. He has been around from the beginning and will be around until Jesus cast him into the lake of fire at the end of the tribulation period. That is verified in so many scriptures that to deny it would only reveal your lack of understanding of scripture. For more information on the anti christ, click here: The Antichrist

    You attempt to play pin then name on the anti christ by naming the Pope as the anti christ and using a numbering system that adds up to 666. First off there are many other numbering systems that people have used and would produce the same numeric results with the right information input into it. For example the Jews alphabet as numeric values for their letters, so if the right person’s name was calculated it would also total 666. I think it much more likely that their number system would reveal the anti christ since the Jews are what everything is centered around. Also, nobody will know who the anti christ is until after the rapture of the church at which time he will confirm a seven year peace treaty with Israel. Scripture is very clear about this also in Daniel 9:26-27!

    You stated “as of today, there is a battle going on, not of flesh and blood, but of doctrines and teaching”. Once again that is a mis-quote of scripture. Ephesians 6:12 actually says:

    For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

    This is clear that we are battling against satan and all he does to destroy man….including false teachings!

    When talking about the Kingdom of Christ you stated “Will Jesus return and rule among us – physically?
    answer : Jesus Christ is the Head of the Church. If you are willing to join that Church,THE CHURCH OF GOD in the bible, Jesus Christ will be your Ruler. He will reign in your heart. He is the one who will “Give You Rest”(Matthew 11:28).
    You are correct that in the sense his Kingdom is in our hearts, but he will also have an earthly Kingdom here on earth that will begin at the end of the tribulation period in which he will reign for 1,000 year known as the Millennial kingdom. Once again this is also backed up by scripture! For more information on the Millennial Kingdom, click here: Anticipating The New Millennium

    Jesus is coming to rapture his bride the Church and once he does it will begin the worst time on earth in the history of the world. God will unleash his wrath on the world of unbelievers who have rejected him and he will bring back the Jewish people into covenant with him. By the grace of God, people who have received Christ as their Lord and Savior will not have to endure that wrath (Revelations 3:10-12, 1Thessalonians 1:10, 1Thessalonians 5:9).

    If you are reading this today, and you have never asked Jesus Christ to forgive you of your sin and come into your life and be your Lord and savior then do it today and let this be the day of your salvation. God wants you to come to him just as you are….you don’t need or have to do anything first to prepare yourself. God will help you with fixing whatever you may need help with in your life once you come to him! Time is running short and Jesus will be coming soon! For more information on the Pretribualtion Rapture, the click here: The Pretribualtion Rapture

    I pray the Lord will open your eyes to the truth in his word dove124! Don’t let this be you:
    2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

  12. faithwalker,
    Please accept my apology for that mistaken identity. But before I will rebut ,I’d like to offer you my sincerest gratitude for letting us to comments in your site.

    And I pray that whatever arguments WE (or other visitors who may browse and give comments or may inquire) may discuss, a friendly exchange of ideas(favorable or otherwise) you will never delete it.

    THANK YOU and MORE POWER TO YOU.

    To God be the Glory

  13. “For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.”

    do we assume “flesh and blood” refers to people. jesus said, “eat my flesh and drink my blood”, if we will to interpret it literally, does that mean we have to eat his flesh and drink his blood? obviously not.
    our struggle is not with our imperfect humanity but with those who would profit from it such as the rulers(political leaders etc), authorities(abuses of powers),against religious authorities or institutions(spiritual forces in heavenly realms)

    when you don’t take on these powers, nothing changes in our lives and this can clearly be seen in corrupt and exploitative political and religious powers/leadership over nations.

    the irony is that many have been lured/lied/tricked into a “religious lull”, praying and awaiting for jesus to return and remedify our problems and the injustices around us.

    we can only effect changes or effect the kingdom of god when the people rise up against wicked POLITICAL and RELIGIOUS leaders which…isn’t it common sense?

  14. Faithwalker,
    It is you who misconcepted the bible, not me. First of all, When I say Spiritual, I’m speaking things related to, or anything that have to do with spiritual.Some may be physical or symbolism or spiritual) But in a sense, it must be related to future events(as far as The Book of Revelation is concerned) , that already happened or may happen in the future.
    Now , let me discuss what you said of my first “misconception” .
    You said “The words of God given to us in the bible were given by the Holy Spirit, but are his literal message to us and are MEANT TO BE TAKEN LITERALLY.”

    Are you sure about that ? How about if I’m going to give you verses, that will repute what you said? Read Matthew 5:29-30 “And if thy right eye offend thee, PLUCK IT OUT, and cast it from thee” : “and if thy right hand offend thee,CUT IT OFF,and cast it from you”. how about in Matt. 6:20, and how about this one also;Mat.10:38 It says ” And he that TAKETH NOT HIS CROSS, and followeth after me is not worthy of me”. Now I will ask you, DID YOU or your group to where you belong to FOLLOW THIS LITERALLY? Come on , don’t lie to me.
    Again, tell me if you or your congregation done these to your members: “Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven”.(Mat.18:18). Does your pastor bound your member or you literally? You see, you can’t do all these literally, but it can only be done spiritually. Add the verse to which PASSERBY had contributed, it is impossible to be done literally.
    The TRUTH N O W I S, your statement is false.

    I will discuss the next statement you said, next time, if God is willing.

    TO GOD BE THE GLORY

  15. passerby,
    You said “our struggle is not with our imperfect humanity but with those who would profit from it such as the rulers(political leaders etc), authorities(abuses of powers),against religious authorities or institutions(spiritual forces in heavenly realms).

    That is incorrect! Our battle is exactly as Ephesians 6:12 says it is. It is against satan and his minions and the evil agenda he pushes in our world and against us. It is a spiritual battle being fought in the spiritual realm. Although I agree we should definatley take a stance against the things you mentioned such as corrupt rulers, corrupt political leaders, corrupt authorities and institutions, etc. Those are things we should simply do as Christians in defense of our faith in Jesus Christ and of his word, but those things are of flesh and blood and or not in the Heavenly realms but are here on earth!

    You also said “the irony is that many have been lured/lied/tricked into a “religious lull”, praying and awaiting for jesus to return and remedify our problems and the injustices around us.”

    The fact is prayer is our strongest weapon against satan and the enemy and I am sorrowful if you don’t see or understand that! It is our method of communication to the God we serve and Love. God hears our prayer and will answer it according to his will and yes we pray and anxiously wait on the return of our Lord Jesus Christ because he is the only one who can remedy the problems and injustices in our world…..plus he commands us to watch and hope for his return:

    Mark 13:32 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 33 Take heed, watch and pray; for you do not know when the time is. 34 It is like a man going to a far country, who left his house and gave authority to his servants, and to each his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to watch. 35 Watch therefore, for you do not know when the master of the house is coming—in the evening, at midnight, at the crowing of the rooster, or in the morning— 36 lest, coming suddenly, he find you sleeping. 37

      And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!”

    Hebrews 10:23-25 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more,

      as ye see the day approaching.

    Peace will not come to this earth until Jesus Christ returns and brings it! By assuming that people who pray and also watch for the return or our Lord Jesus Christ don’t or can’t affect change in our world is an incorrect assumption!

    Dove124,
    As you and passerby should both know if you study the Bible, God spoke to us in his word by using hyperbole, figures of speech, parables, songs, poems, etc. The scriptures you and passerby gave of “eating and drinking the literal body of Christ”, “Actually picking up a cross everyday”, etc., are examples of this. That doesn’t change the fact that the message he gave is a literal message meant to be taken literal. For instance…… In John 6:51-59 Jesus is speaking figuratively. He never intended that they eat His flesh or drink His blood in the literal sense, but that they “partake” of His death in order to gain life. He had made the transition from literal to figurative when He compared Himself to the manna their forefathers had eaten in the desert in verses 48-49. The manna had sustained their forefathers’ temporal lives, but the literal message is that he would sustain their eternal lives.
    Jesus even explained this in Luke 22:
    19And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”
    20In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

    If you don’t understand these things about how God’s word is written then I highly recommend you study up on this, because it will make a lot of difference in your study of God’s word!


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